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Dorsey Omalley

Alpine V.s. Lp Products (E-46 Upgardes)

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I have currently a Alp head unit, silver/blue been in love with Alp's for ever, wish they still had black green. (reminiscence value) 013.jpg The question I'm having is how does LP compare to say the KTP-445A Alpine Head Unit Power Pack or even say a MRV-F300 4/3/2 Channel V-Power Digital Amplifier ? Both of those can be had under the ~250 range, I have in past cars used the Alps (older models not the above two choices). As well as if I were to go to LP I have not seen a link of products available and pricing w/install. I have heard the amps but they were far larger than My needs, I'm not wanting to sack the trunk for radio gear, I use the space. I would plan on using existing harmen/karden speakers they sound good, and still work. Thank you (Also how the hell come my enter key is not working allowing me to make separate paragraphs on the forum)

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Welcome to CA-F ...

I'm not wanting to sack the trunk for radio gear, I use the space.

Linear Power makes some the smallest footprint amplifiers on the market ...

... But NEVER mistake that with output power ... Nothing comes close !!!

I would plan on using existing harmen/karden speakers they sound good, and still work.

Are these Stock ??

(Also how the hell come my enter key is not working allowing me to make separate paragraphs on the forum)

Nothing seems to be wrong on my end ... My have to get the Admin to check your account ...

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Seriously? Those two names don't even belong in the same sentence when comparing amplifiers. Alpine are entry level at best, and LP is top shelf. It's not even close.

Thank you for that thought out post.... As for Cableguy, No, I would not mistake size to output power. I'm wanting VOLUME and CLARITY of music, Now it has been a while but back when you were working on your front speakers, you did not have the 'woofers' in the back seat engaged, and just going off the for lack of better term the 3 ways you had was impressive, for the v/c of the over all mix, I'm as you might recall more into the 80's music wave/punk/rock, and classical so do not need the 'deep base'... Yes the harmen/kardens are stock, and If I recall correctly I have 8 various ones, floor, dash, A pillar, back deck. Of those the back deck would be easier to get to. We can get into the weeds on all the fine points when I get her back from paint shop (wen) And from last exploration I think they were the carbon/paper type, again we can get into the weeds on that later if need be. As for having Admin have a peep at the account sure please, Or if I can get Charles back over here I will have him have a look see at this and he can un-noob me. As always thanks buddy, appreciate the helps dinner is on Me.

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Seriously? Those two names don't even belong in the same sentence when comparing amplifiers. Alpine are entry level at best, and LP is top shelf. It's not even close.

I wouldn't go that far. Alpine amplifiers are not entry level, their quality is solid and have over the years always been a decent choice. The only real issue that could be hammered on is THD of the first run or two of the PDX amps.

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Now it has been a while but back when you were working on your front speakers, you did not have the 'woofers' in the back seat engaged, and just going off the for lack of better term the 3 ways you had was impressive,

Thank you ... and Yea, I still pull that trick from time to time ... I love the clarity, dynamics, and power of these new amplifiers ... I am considerd a poster child for the Linear Power's logo ... "For the Love of Music"

You have to be careful though if you try that with a new Linear Power amplifier on the average driver ... There is SOO much power, dynamics, and driver control at lower frequiencies with these new amplifiers, one goof up and too much power, you might be seeing the bottom sides of your drivers ... I know the Linear drivers can take the punishment, So I enjoy jacking them up from time to time and really enjoy my Monsters of Rock music !!!

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Seriously? Those two names don't even belong in the same sentence when comparing amplifiers. Alpine are entry level at best, and LP is top shelf. It's not even close.

I wouldn't go that far. Alpine amplifiers are not entry level, their quality is solid and have over the years always been a decent choice. The only real issue that could be hammered on is THD of the first run or two of the PDX amps.

We can agree to disagree. Alpine used to be of some quality. Now they do the minimum to appeal to the masses.

Still....when is the last time you saw an Alpine amp compared to the likes of any other very high end amplifier? I would venture to say those days ended in the mid 90's at best.

Edited by smoothfidelity

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Now it has been a while but back when you were working on your front speakers, you did not have the 'woofers' in the back seat engaged, and just going off the for lack of better term the 3 ways you had was impressive,

Thank you ... and Yea, I still pull that trick from time to time ... I love the clarity, dynamics, and power of these new amplifiers ... I am considerd a poster child for the Linear Power's logo ... "For the Love of Music"

You have to be careful though if you try that with a new Linear Power amplifier on the average driver ... There is SOO much power, dynamics, and driver control at lower frequiencies with these new amplifiers, one goof up and too much power, you might be seeing the bottom sides of your drivers ... I know the Linear drivers can take the punishment, So I enjoy jacking them up from time to time and really enjoy my Monsters of Rock music !!!

Very good point that needs to be made. It sounds like he got a demo in your vehicle. The OP needs to understand the result is the sum of all parts and not just the amplifiers. Amping stock drivers with any amp, let alone LP, isn't going to net you all that much.

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You guys give way too much credit to LP amplifiers, seriously

And your point ?? Beings we ARE in the Linear Power section of this forum ... Giving credit to our product is why we are here ... Correct ??

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Seriously? Those two names don't even belong in the same sentence when comparing amplifiers. Alpine are entry level at best, and LP is top shelf. It's not even close.

I wouldn't go that far. Alpine amplifiers are not entry level, their quality is solid and have over the years always been a decent choice. The only real issue that could be hammered on is THD of the first run or two of the PDX amps.

We can agree to disagree. Alpine used to be of some quality. Now they do the minimum to appeal to the masses.

Still....when is the last time you saw an Alpine amp compared to the likes of any other very high end amplifier? I would venture to say those days ended in the mid 90's at best.

Yes they do have entry level stuff for the masses, but their are other models of better quality and performance for more money. I think you are misunderstanding what I was saying. I am not comparing Alpine to LP, just that Alpine is not all cheap junk. For one of the big name brands, they are a good offering.

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Welcome to CA-F ...

I'm not wanting to sack the trunk for radio gear, I use the space.

Linear Power makes some the smallest footprint amplifiers on the market ...

... But NEVER mistake that with output power ... Nothing comes close !!!

I would plan on using existing harmen/karden speakers they sound good, and still work.

Are these Stock ??

(Also how the hell come my enter key is not working allowing me to make separate paragraphs on the forum)

Nothing seems to be wrong on my end ... My have to get the Admin to check your account ...

You guys give way too much credit to LP amplifiers, seriously

And your point ?? Beings we ARE in the Linear Power section of this forum ... Giving credit to our product is why we are here ... Correct ??

I have nothing against Linear Power, I'm sure their products work great but to say nothing comes close to output and size in incorrect. There are many small footprint powerful amplifiers. JL HD and Alpine PDX series come to mind off the top of my head. You guys do realize the Alpine he is looking at is smaller and just as powerful as the LP? and its a class D which is more efficient that class ab. I'm sure it is a lot cheaper as well, but LP doesn't list prices so who knows.

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Here is where the comparison ends; sound quality. It's not even a discussion. If the OP cares more about any other aspect above sound quality, then maybe LP isn't for him. However, if he wants sound quality above all else then maybe LP is right for him.

From the OP's comments so far, I don't think he realizes that many other factors will also play a part in his results and maybe he should focus on a proper install and quality drivers before worrying about amplifier differences.

Amping stock drivers won't get you far.

Edited by smoothfidelity

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Yeah, I can. Open up any Alpine amplifier and you will see the difference. However, part selection plays just a small part in how an amplifier sounds. Many other factors come into play including, but not limited to, the engineer's knowledge who is designing the amp, the engineer's experience with true sound quality, and the circuit board layout. Not to mention, Alpine sets a budget just like any other company so engineers are confined to that budget no matter how far they want to go to improve sound quality. The newest Linear amplifiers were limited by NOTHING.

Now, to avoid a nut swinging argument with you, I will just state that I have owned 80% of all amplifiers made in the past 20 years to current day. No, that is not an exaggeration. I buy, audition, test, and then sell most everything. All products that come through my door are auditioned for great lengths of time regardless of the name. Some clearly aren't worth my time with just a few minutes of listening, and others are harder to pin down flaws. I have first hand experience with most all LP amps as well, including the new ones.

Maybe you should try owning and auditioning the products you speak of before trying to pick an argument with someone who has. We all have an opinion. Some opinions just have a lot more experience behind them.

Edited by smoothfidelity

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^Agreed....I have owned many amplifiers/ speakers also in various systems, JL, DLS, PG just to name a few and without a doubt, the LP amps and speakers are my choice regardless of price. I am currently competing against 4 and 3 way front stages that are competition built with all external processing etc with my 2 way stock built front stage and i am whooping ass going and coming. tonality, imaging, staging... the equipment combination requires minimal eq ing. Speaker systems deliver from 30 Hz upwards effortlessly and into the upper 20's in usable range. I have competed without a sub woofer once and beat everyone at the competition. The equipment is worth more than twice the cost simply because i have not heard anything close. The noise floors in the amplifiers are ridiculously low to the point where u hear the cd motor in the head unit even when coupled with high efficiency speakers. The power as the name implies, is truly Linear as you dont even have to listen to the system at higher listening levels to experience great sub bass that is extremely transparent. I would recommend Linear Power equipment to anyone who can afford it.

As i am on the topic of affording it...food for thought is created when considering 3 and 4 way installation:

1) More vehicle Modification required resulting in devaluing vehicle and reducing originality.

2) More wiring required resulting in higher chances of cross talk, noises, whines

3) More amplification channels/ amplifiers needed increases cost

4) More processing required to correct time alignment/ phase issues

5) More Space occupied by system in trunk etc

6) Higher Installation cost

7) Longer installation period

8) Higher likely hood of system problems as all connections in system designs are considered to be weak links and the obvious understanding that if you have more equipment then chances of equipment failure is higher.

9) Tuning can be significantly more tedious and more difficult to get right

10) Coloration effects resulting in an unreal experience.

Choose you system design wisely.

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Yeah, I can. Open up any Alpine amplifier and you will see the difference. However, part selection plays just a small part in how an amplifier sounds. Many other factors come into play including, but not limited to, the engineer's knowledge who is designing the amp, the engineer's experience with true sound quality, and the circuit board layout. Not to mention, Alpine sets a budget just like any other company so engineers are confined to that budget no matter how far they want to go to improve sound quality. The newest Linear amplifiers were limited by NOTHING.

Now, to avoid a nut swinging argument with you, I will just state that I have owned 80% of all amplifiers made in the past 20 years to current day. No, that is not an exaggeration. I buy, audition, test, and then sell most everything. All products that come through my door are auditioned for great lengths of time regardless of the name. Some clearly aren't worth my time with just a few minutes of listening, and others are harder to pin down flaws. I have first hand experience with most all LP amps as well, including the new ones.

Maybe you should try owning and auditioning the products you speak of before trying to pick an argument with someone who has. We all have an opinion. Some opinions just have a lot more experience behind them.

interesting because that is exactly what you are doing. So you believe Liner Power is the best ever as well?

I have owned a lot of amplifiers, not as much as you claim, but I have done extensive testing with the ones I am able to. What really troubles me is why do I not see more LP amplifiers out there? I mean they are the best amplifier ever produced but I have never had the chance to see one or hear any in action. Why is that?

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interesting because that is exactly what you are doing. So you believe Liner Power is the best ever as well?

Not at all. You don't know me so I was just stating the length of experience I have with tons and tons of equipment for you to better understand that I am not just some guy running his mouth for no reason. I have, and will continue to do research.

The best ever? They are up there. There are other really good sounding amplifiers out there, but comparing them to what Alpine produces today is absurd.

I have owned a lot of amplifiers, not as much as you claim, but I have done extensive testing with the ones I am able to. What really troubles me is why do I not see more LP amplifiers out there? I mean they are the best amplifier ever produced but I have never had the chance to see one or hear any in action. Why is that?

That could be caused by a lot of different factors.

- There may have never been an LP dealer in your area. Therefore, there isn't much product floating around locally.

- LP's have never been cheap, and even 20 year old used amplifiers still sell on ebay for more than most new amps sell for today. (ask yourself why that may be)

- SQ is a niche market. There are more people that want boomy sound in their cars for cheap, then there are people who are willing to spend thousands to hear their music the way it was designed to be heard.

Add all that together and you get a product that you won't see in everyone else's car.

Keep in mind that I also stated that install, tuning, and quality of drivers is also going to play a major part in results. However, you will only ever be as good as your weakest link.

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20 years on the market and I still haven't seen one? Funny you mention resale numbers, I see plenty on eBay that don't sell because of unrealistic reserve prices, there are even some on SSA and diyma that have been on for months that haven't sold.

Let me guess, class D amplifiers can't sound as good as class ab?

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So buy one and then you will. What is your point here? You haven't been within 2 miles of ANY LP amp and you have what argument? That because you haven't seen one in passing, they are somewhat inferior? Now you want to argue about output stages when no one mentioned them? No need to answer. Move on.

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Ok .. Now I remember this OP ... The Ameristar PitBoss !!! Dorcey !!! Again Sir, Welcome to CA-F ...

I know ... I need to get that LED work done to your car soon. Just been ALOT going on Sir, Can't wait to see those "plum crazy" LEDs !!!

Dorcey demo'd my ride during the time when I was installing the Kenwood 9980 and the dash was a mess ... LOL

That night I was about drunk (well maybe alot drunk) and was out there in the Ameristar parking lot beating the block down and flashing the LEDs when we (Me, Mike, and Josh) met Dorcey. Yea, he liked the bass ... but well not sure. So we started talking and found out that he was an 80s nut. So I said lets go back to the truck and fire up this other flash drive ...

Flipped through and landed on Duran Duran ... Made a few adjustments on the kenwood and jumped into a demo ...

From what I remember, got some real good responses (on another forum) from Dorcey on my system ... and that was with the 2 way passive and one LP2150 at the time ...

Well Dorcey ... we got the dash done. Got a few mods that need to be done, but happy with it so far ...

image_url-43297-1379769634_thumb.jpgimage_url-43297-1379769551_thumb.jpg

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I am not comparing Alpine to LP, just that Alpine is not all cheap junk. For one of the big name brands, they are a good offering.[/b]

I will agree with this ...

We have team members that use their head units and processor networks ... and these guys are very picky about their systems. I'm sure they've had a chance to run their "better end" amplifiers, but when you look in their vehicles ... you can barely count the number of Linear Power amplifiers that's in their trucks on one hand ...

I have nothing against Linear Power, I'm sure their products work great but to say nothing comes close to output and size in incorrect. There are many small footprint powerful amplifiers. JL HD and Alpine PDX series come to mind off the top of my head. You guys do realize the Alpine he is looking at is smaller and just as powerful as the LP? and its a class D which is more efficient that class ab. I'm sure it is a lot cheaper as well, but LP doesn't list prices so who knows.

Aparently you have something against Linear Power, considering you are defending EVERY other amplifier on the market ...

Question though ... If these amplifiers are worth your time defending ... what amplifiers are you running ???

and you guys over in the other pond call us brand boners ...

I would put Zed Audio at the top of amplifier build quality, Stephen Mantz has been in the industry forever and has built amplifiers for quite a few big name companies

Really ??? and we've yet to see one in major competition Sound Quality vehicles ...

Can you prove to me LP uses better components than alpine to make its products?

I will say this ... Linear Power spared NO EXPENSE to make these amplifiers. They use the absolute BEST parts that money can buy to go into this equipment ... and EVERY amplifier is hand built and tested here in our own back yard better known as the USA ...

I see plenty on eBay that don't sell because of unrealistic reserve prices, there are even some on SSA and diyma that have been on for months that haven't sold.

Most old school LPs you see on Ebay these days are aplifiers that have been cherished for years ...

Now that the New Amplifiers are out ... Die Hard Linear Power guys that know what they have are letting their amplifiers go to buy the new ones ... Reason I know this is I'm one of those guys that has sold everything I could to get these new machines in my truck ...

Let me guess, class D amplifiers can't sound as good as class ab?

Most of us here could care less what a class D sounds like because we've actually found out what "sound good" is suppost to sound like ...

and its a class D which is more efficient that class ab.

More Efficient ... Maybe for all of the other class A/B amplifiers in this world ... Definately NOT for the new Linear Power amplifiers ...

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Yep yep Randal, that's Me, one in the same I know you are having issue atm with the truck and heading to the meet this week, I pick up the car later today from the shop.. NEW PAINT!... And will give it a go with the purps on the inside and the fog lights today once I get her back, Underbody is going to have to wait. the angel eyes are beyond Me as I need a few more parts.. From Hyper...and possible some skills on that. BUT back to point on hand.. I can only write a post in what is a ramble paragraph, as My enter key on here does jack. NOW onto my question on the amps that has boiled into a pissing contest. You now recall my style of music and 'playability' of it all, and My love of say Bose/Infinity for home application (Infinity in the Audi's in the 90's were a good package as well) I want the same thing in My car. I'm not going to yield trunk space for a speaker box. I m thinking of the amp on the upper back wall or the rear deck underside. My opening post listed a amp and a head unit booster that would yield clarity and volume, Akin to what I recall in your truck with a price range of say ~350 Installed. I recall the amps that you had were defiantly 'Bigger' than what I need 2 feet long 1000 watts (what ever) Question is where am I looking at price wise if I go with LP?

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In short, class D being a high current architecture has less control over the speakers than class A/B which is a high voltage architecture. More control equals crisper sound and less delay in audible speaker response.

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Yep yep Randal, that's Me, one in the same I know you are having issue atm with the truck and heading to the meet this week, I pick up the car later today from the shop.. NEW PAINT!... And will give it a go with the purps on the inside and the fog lights today once I get her back, Underbody is going to have to wait. the angel eyes are beyond Me as I need a few more parts.. From Hyper...and possible some skills on that. BUT back to point on hand.. I can only write a post in what is a ramble paragraph, as My enter key on here does jack. NOW onto my question on the amps that has boiled into a pissing contest. You now recall my style of music and 'playability' of it all, and My love of say Bose/Infinity for home application (Infinity in the Audi's in the 90's were a good package as well) I want the same thing in My car. I'm not going to yield trunk space for a speaker box. I m thinking of the amp on the upper back wall or the rear deck underside. My opening post listed a amp and a head unit booster that would yield clarity and volume, Akin to what I recall in your truck with a price range of say ~350 Installed. I recall the amps that you had were defiantly 'Bigger' than what I need 2 feet long 1000 watts (what ever) Question is where am I looking at price wise if I go with LP?

As soon as We (me and Mike) get back from Finals in Huntsville, we should be able to get back to work on your car ...

I'm sure that we will be able to come up with something to fit your needs ... Myabe a pair of LP100s or something similar ...

Its all good brother. On behaf of the CA-F crew ... Sorry for all of the confusion

In short, class D being a high current architecture has less control over the speakers than class A/B which is a high voltage architecture. More control equals crisper sound and less delay in audible speaker response.

Ab-so-frek-in-lute-ly !!!

You just had to sneak one in there huh ...

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