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SQ Audio's 2011 Toyota Yaris Blues/ LP Build Log

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The key to SQ Judging is Consistency. You have to have a reference guide that you can refer to in order to award points. Inconsistencies will drive competitors nuts...

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1) I know for a FACT that the mid bass from the blues were a whole lot better than the zapcos yet the score dropped by 2 points from 17 to 15.

2) I have a lot more height with the Blues as indicated by the judge commenting " good height " on the score sheet but yet only 8 points out of 15 as compared to the previous height being on the dash board and me getting 12 points with the zapcos.

3) The stage width got a bit wider and even sometimes outside the pillar with the blues but yet i got the same 13 points as when it was narrower.

4) The floor noise which is inherent with the alpine 701 analog input is the exact same floor noise that was heard before. last time i got 4 points and this time i got 3 points for the same noise...

Exactly the reason I don't drive hundreds of miles to have some shmuck give me his subjective opinion that will change every time he sits down in my vehicle. Waste of time.

I could not agree more. E-high five. Now, I know plenty of people love and enjoy SQ competition, but I do not prefer it for this exact reason.

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It is very discouraging but i will continue to compete because i like to meet new competitors and socialize with people of the same interest.

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The key to SQ Judging is Consistency. You have to have a reference guide that you can refer to in order to award points. Inconsistencies will drive competitors nuts...

I agree. I've been getting the good feedback from 1 judge. My system seems to have a "Jeckyll and Hyde" effect with him. One weekend he loves it, a couple of weeks later "it just sounds off" (to him) so it scores a couple of points lower (with no changes). Drives me nuts.

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OK...So i have realized that by inverting the phase by 180 Degrees on either the right or left side of my front stage, perfectly aligns the staging and imaging. However i can also do this with time alignment. Which one should i use? I was told that told that phase movements change tonality in a big way...any thoughts on this?

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I have realised that the phase change in fact DOES change the tonality of the system A LOT. The staging and imaging is not as accurate with the TA correction as it is with the phase change. i will have to try to get the best of both worlds some how. will keep you guys posted on the progress with the box and the tuning...

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Time alignment and phasing (which time alignment actually is) always effects tonality in any system. The system has to be equalized after the fact, to smooth the response curve. Time alignment creates peaks and dips in the response by simulating movement of the physical location of each speaker relative to all the other speakers in the system. This virtual movement of one speaker from the other causes a phase shift and can cause certain frequencies to peak or dip. This is a normal byproduct of time alignment.

The use of a pink noise disc and a really good RTA such as an Audio Control SA 3050 to locate these dips and peaks makes it much easier to find what areas of the response curve need equalization. Most SQ oriented head units have between 13 and 30 bands of equalization that can easily smooth the response curve out digitally in the head unit. This is far better than keep adding more equipment down line to correct the signal. Addition of more and more equipment into the signal path injects more electrical parts all of which decrease the line voltage, original dynamics and "colors" the sound electrically. All electronics are made of combinations of resistors, diodes and capacitors, as well as transistors that internally contain a mixture of the first three in the list. A resistor naturally resists current flow and is rated in wattage to allow for the change in electrical energy to heat energy as signal is passed thru the device, a capacitor stores and/or filters the signal, and a diode naturally have a .7 volt loss across the junction. All of these combined effect the voltage, the voltage level and the tonality of the original signal. This is why most true Audiophiles prefer to keep systems very simple and straight forward, it's called the idea of "straight wire with gain" this is the impossibly theoretical idea to have signal gain "power addition" with no addition or loss to the original signal, but it does strongly suggest that simple systems with less electronics added to the signal path, sound more dynamic, natural, and truer to the original music was meant to sound. Another principle that this can be called is the KISS Principle, " keep it simple, stupid".

The more of the processing that can be done inside the source unit and done digitally before being converted to analog signal. the better and with the least amount of signal degradation. Trying to process the signal down the audio chain means one of two things; you have to process it on an analog basis which injects a lot of electronics into the signal path, or the signal has to be changed from analog back to digital and then processed and converted back to analog. This is why having a head unit that can do everything digitally before it is ever converted to analog is better for keeping the signal as close to what it was meant to be.

The other issue to adding additional electronic devices down chain is the possibility or addition electrical noise from multiple grounding of each product used, as well as, internally radiated noise from the power supply section of each one of these additional products.

I know the response to this is going to be to add a line driver to get the voltage back after processing the signal, which would increase the voltage, but it can't restore the dynamics and the originality lost after going thru so many pieces of electronic parts. It also lowers the signal to noise ratio and will increase system hiss. All the signal gain needs to be done from the head unit so that maximum signal to noise ratio can be maintained, lower the signal voltage thru the audio chain and then boosting it again toward the end increases hiss and injected noise.

This is why even in simple systems, signal voltage from the head unit needs to be high to allow amplifier gains to be set low to reject the most system noise. If the head unit is set to a low output volume and the amp gain is turned higher than needed to make full power the system noise will be worse, if the head unit is turned to near full output volume and the amplifier gain is set low and still makes full power the overall system noise will be reduced.

Edited by Linear Power

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Alpine, Kenwood, and Pioneer all have head units that have multiple bands of equalization and time alignment built in. Most of these units there are enough bands of equalization to smooth the response curve out. I believe the Alpine does its processing thru an outboard digital processor that is an option,(701, and now the newer 802 processor, I think). The upper end Pioneer units (PRS99RS, and a few others) and the upper end Kenwood double din nav units (DNX8120, DNX9940, DNX9960, DNX9980, DNX9990, the 9990 is the newest version, as well as, a few other Kenwood models will do most functions) have everything on board in the head unit, either type of head unit works well. The upper end Pioneer units with all the features are hard to find, and are subject to factory backorders, as they do not produce a large number of these head units.

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The older Alpine processor was known to have a very high system noiose level (hiss), the new Alpine replacement (802) supposed to be far quieter than the older 701 piece.

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I haven't found a double din NAV headunit from any other company, besides Kenwood, that has the same extensive crossover capabilities or 13 bands of EQ. The Alpine will if you add the external processor, if you want to fork over even more money.

Edited by smoothfidelity

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I dont really need a Nav unit. I just need a unit with time alignment and a decent eq. and a high pass that can go as high as 2.5KHz.. I love the kenwood but none of them available here can do that for me.

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ok i did it...i got the Pioneer deh 80 prs head unit. Its the little p99rs . it sounds great ! stage got more transparent. noise floor is not audible, Speakers are loving the tones even more, reproducing them effortlessly and accurately. got more depth as well as there's no hiss or noise to clutter the stage. it sounds great and i havent even touched the eq as yet.! i am anxious to see how it looks on the RTA before doing any eq ing. Look out for pics soon!

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Gentlemen...the results are fantastic. Below are some cellfone shots of how the rta looked before and after the eq ing and what the eq looks like.

These speakers give the flattest response i have ever seen without any eq ing. Keep in mind that i only had to touch 8 bands of eq at 2/3 octave to get a flatline response.

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Just waiting for your report on the ported box project.

Inquiring minds want to know.... :D

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i will be working on porting the box this week!

wake up forum!

I'm here Sir ... Waiting patiently

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i have been preparing for a X2 Point MECA Show for this sunday. Didnt do anything as yet. I will tell a small story though. I had a 1X point competition last sunday and i had a distrubutor for morel amd genesis and an iasca island sq champion listen to my car with the blues speakers. they both said that i needed to turn up the sub bass just a little. Guess what. the sub was out because i had to put alot of junk in the trunk!!! :stfu2:

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i have been preparing for a X2 Point MECA Show for this sunday. Didnt do anything as yet. I will tell a small story though. I had a 1X point competition last sunday and i had a distrubutor for morel amd genesis and an iasca island sq champion listen to my car with the blues speakers. they both said that i needed to turn up the sub bass just a little. Guess what. the sub was out because i had to put alot of junk in the trunk!!! :stfu2:

What were their responses when you told them this? I can picture a dumb founded look on their faces.

Edited by smoothfidelity

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Just wait till you get one of the new amps on the 6.5's, you can ask thunder or cablguy what the difference will be. It will sound like there are subs up front. We have actually had people say turn the sub down just a little and there is no sub on.

The speakers are super efficient and respond well with small amps but unlike other SQ speakers that can't take a lot of power or volume, our speakers love power they just keep delivering quality sound and get louder.

The poor people that thing SQ and volume don't mix, I feel sorry for. I believe music is about re-creating music as accurately as possible and you should be able to reach realistic levels too!

I was at a show two weeks ago and a vender that had heard my Escape sent two different customers down that had destroyed 3 other major brand products because they couldn't handle the power. They were told to come listen to our product because it had the SQ and power handling and musical output they wanted.

Edited by Linear Power

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