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The NEW Linear Power amps

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http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/forum/index.php/topic/3659-bmw-horn-install/

Nothing special but I've since cleaned the setup coz I installed other stuffs. System is now:

CD7200mkII --> PG EQ232

DLS A2 --> ID CD1e v.3 (full body)

DLS A7 --> ID X65 (bridged)

DLS A7 --> RE Audio SL10 (I know, I know, but that is my girlfriend's car and she did not want 2 x 12s hanging on the rear shelves <_< )

Car is a white BMW 316ti similar to this:

BMW-316ti-Compact-2-2010.jpg

BMW-316ti-Compact-1-2010.jpg

Kelvin

Edited by Subwoofery

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Oh wow, I did not know they continued that model. They killed it off here after 2004 I believe.

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Oh wow, I did not know they continued that model. They killed it off here after 2004 I believe.

Yes the E36 version was the last one for US, they released the above E46 version in Europe only. Not bad at all for cruising really, heard that that version's steering is just below the E46 M3 in feeling and involvement. Too bad I have bad tyres on right now lol

If that was the 325ti, I would never sell the car...

Kelvin

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Sweet, thanks for the info.

Am really interested in the LP2250. Am using horns and am all for headroom and dynamics.

Kelvin

How much power can you feed to those horns? I know pro sound stuff often has high power ratings but I've never felt they were realistic.

As for the dual mono question; we will probably not do a dual mono imho. I'm not against it from a moral standpoint. But the channel separation we have on the prototypes is already well beyond most amps. We had several changes that didn't get put into the prototypes due to time which will increase the separation and lower the noise floor. At this point I don't think it will make sense for us to do so.

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Any other differences between the LP2150 and the LP2250 other than the power and the fan?

Any chance of seeing a "dual mono" LP2250 in the future? Maybe custom made?

Kelvin

There is no differences in the LP2150 and the LP2250 other than about 3 inches more heat sink and more power, features and SQ are the same. For that fact, ALL of the 2 channel stereo amps will have the EXACT same pre-amp and output circuit topology, they will just have smaller or larger number of output devices and run on a different internal voltage.

The LP2150 is way stronger than the old 3002 (150 x 2) and stronger still than the 2.2HV, and almost as strong as the old 5002. The LP2250 when it comes out will give the 8002SW a run for its money when its bridged and easily beat the 3.2HV in stereo or bridged modes.

No, we have no plans for a dual mono version of the LP2250. We may eventually make one larger amp, if so it will be the LP2400 and would be 400 watts RMS per channel, this amp would easily outperform the 4.1HVS.

All the new Linear Power amps will have the built in fan cicruit, that will operate at temperatures above 60 degrees C, (140 degrees F) The smaller amps will not come with the fan shroud but it will be an option. The multi-channel amps and the larger 2 channels (LP2250 and if we make larger) will come with a fan shroud as standard issue.

i'd be down for one of these, easily!

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Sweet, thanks for the info.

Am really interested in the LP2250. Am using horns and am all for headroom and dynamics.

Kelvin

How much power can you feed to those horns? I know pro sound stuff often has high power ratings but I've never felt they were realistic.

As for the dual mono question; we will probably not do a dual mono imho. I'm not against it from a moral standpoint. But the channel separation we have on the prototypes is already well beyond most amps. We had several changes that didn't get put into the prototypes due to time which will increase the separation and lower the noise floor. At this point I don't think it will make sense for us to do so.

The one I'm using right now can only take 40rms @ 8 ohm, was planning the LP2250 for mid duty. However, I have another horn for my future project that can take 100rms @ 8 ohm (realisticly I don't think I'll be sending that much unless I send close to 600rms to the mid).

Kelvin

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>Ray<

Would like to ask something else, please...

Your amplifiers are known for being dynamic and having headroom : +3dB to be exact.

What in the output and power supply stage make the amp have so much headroom? Transistors? Transformer maybe?

I've read all about regulated VS unregulated and would like to know what else?

I had to ask coz the McIntosh MCC602TM is a monster of an amp and is supposed to be the best 2 channel on the market today - but from the specs it's headroom is 1dB. I guess 300rms is good enough not to have 3dB of headroom :shrug: lol

Kelvin

Edited by Subwoofery

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>Ray<

Would like to ask something else, please...

Your amplifiers are known for being dynamic and having headroom : +3dB to be exact.

What in the output and power supply stage make the amp have so much headroom? Transistors? Transformer maybe?

I've read all about regulated VS unregulated and would like to know what else?

I had to ask coz the McIntosh MCC602TM is a monster of an amp and is supposed to be the best 2 channel on the market today - but from the specs it's headroom is 1dB. I guess 300rms is good enough not to have 3dB of headroom :shrug: lol

Kelvin

I'm no engineer, but my thoughts are that the power supply section is only working at a small fraction of what it can deliver. The output of the amp is 150 x 2, 300 total, the power supply is capable of delivering over 1000 watts PER CHANNEL. (25+ amps x 80+ volts to the output stage) It's only working at around 27% capacity. There is a TON of reserve, so NO SAG in the power supply at any volume or any frequency. The low frequency roll off poles are set at 4 Hertz, so it will make full power to 4 cycles and around 60% power at 1 cycle. :trippy:

PLUS, I saw Ray wrap the transformers, that man is a monster when it comes to wrapping them, and pulling that wire as tight as he did also helps make the power supply more efficient from what I understand. :shrug:

Add to that the output devices are capable of 450 watts PER CHANNEL and there is some of the reason for the +3 dB of headroom.

Ray can answer in better detail, and hopefully I didn't butcher it too much. :drink40:

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Headroom, dynamics and reserve power go hand in hand and are a result of all design factors of the amp combined. It starts with a well built efficient un- regulated power supply design and not to correct Richard but the power supply can deliever a total of 1100 watts of energy to the output stage and at 150 watts per channel that is around 24 percent of it's capability. The other things are the output devices capabilities and the general overbuilding and topology used in the circuit design. Nothing in the amp runs over 33 percent of it's capability, in most cases it's even less than 33 percent.

Edited by Linear Power

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Most electronic devices today are designed to use as much of their potential as remotely possible. I know of several amps from other mfgs that are rated in excess of 100% of the components inside them. Like Richard said we are only using <30% of the power supply potential. It is commonly known that the rail voltage on unregulated supplies sag under load. Ours would if we ran it at 100%. Since we overbuilt them the rail is steady at full output. And when I say full output I mean continuously driven to the limit and not a short burst.

<tradesecret>Jeri has a torture test that will torch most amplifiers. The LP2150's all pass this test. </tradesecret>

I forget the actual number but our output device capacity is the same story. We only utilize a small amount of the total transistor potential. This prevents us from running into a hard ceiling on voltage or current to the drivers. It also makes us much less likely to kill an output if a driver presents a very load impedance for short periods. IE we aren't already on the ragged edge waiting on another straw to break something.

All of this leads to a ton of headroom.

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If I understand correctly, in the power supply stage, you need to make it as efficient and as overbuild as possible - not using it's full capacity. Resulting in fast transient when needed, staying cool and last long.

And in the output stage, you need to have a large power reserve of the output transistors, storage caps near transistors and create a large enough bandwith. Resulting in full power when needed, no compression of the sound due to limited bandwith and low distorsion.

Am I correct? Just want to learn. Don't worry Ray, I'm too stupid to create a clone of one of your "babies".

Kelvin

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Most electronic devices today are designed to use as much of their potential as remotely possible. I know of several amps from other mfgs that are rated in excess of 100% of the components inside them. Like Richard said we are only using <30% of the power supply potential. It is commonly known that the rail voltage on unregulated supplies sag under load. Ours would if we ran it at 100%. Since we overbuilt them the rail is steady at full output. And when I say full output I mean continuously driven to the limit and not a short burst.

<tradesecret>Jeri has a torture test that will torch most amplifiers. The LP2150's all pass this test. </tradesecret>

I forget the actual number but our output device capacity is the same story. We only utilize a small amount of the total transistor potential. This prevents us from running into a hard ceiling on voltage or current to the drivers. It also makes us much less likely to kill an output if a driver presents a very load impedance for short periods. IE we aren't already on the ragged edge waiting on another straw to break something.

All of this leads to a ton of headroom.

That's some good info. Thank you Steve.

What's your point of view regarding the McIntosh MCC602TM? How can an amp of this stature, overbuild I'm sure, can only have 1dB of headroom (it's in the specs)?

Kelvin

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[Ray, I put this thread in the newsletter, so it should get some views.

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Most electronic devices today are designed to use as much of their potential as remotely possible. I know of several amps from other mfgs that are rated in excess of 100% of the components inside them. Like Richard said we are only using <30% of the power supply potential. It is commonly known that the rail voltage on unregulated supplies sag under load. Ours would if we ran it at 100%. Since we overbuilt them the rail is steady at full output. And when I say full output I mean continuously driven to the limit and not a short burst.

<tradesecret>Jeri has a torture test that will torch most amplifiers. The LP2150's all pass this test. </tradesecret>

I forget the actual number but our output device capacity is the same story. We only utilize a small amount of the total transistor potential. This prevents us from running into a hard ceiling on voltage or current to the drivers. It also makes us much less likely to kill an output if a driver presents a very load impedance for short periods. IE we aren't already on the ragged edge waiting on another straw to break something.

All of this leads to a ton of headroom.

That's some good info. Thank you Steve.

What's your point of view regarding the McIntosh MCC602TM? How can an amp of this stature, overbuild I'm sure, can only have 1dB of headroom (it's in the specs)?

Kelvin

Buy me one and I'll tell you my opinion. :)

Honestly, I know nothing about Mcintosh products made in the last 15 years. I didn't even realize they were still around till someone mentioned them last year. If I had to make an uneducated guess it would be they use a tightly regulated power supply and make use of most of the components capacity. Those are two common things that come to mind. I really know nothing of their current layout and I don't want it to seem like I'm saying anything bad. I'm not. I just don't know.

Something to understand about building a good A/B amplifier is that it isn't complex and doesn't require a lot of exotic parts. Knowing which parts are crucial, picking the right ones, not sacrificing simple principles, and understanding what to do with the layout are the keys. The difficulty is the knowledge not the simple assembly. When you know what I know about these amps it's easy to see why they work. It isn't voodoo. It's just doing things right.

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are there going to be any plans to do custom color heatsniks like the original models had?

and when are the projected release dates?

thanks

Welcome to CA-F Bro !!!

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We are going to offer 3 maybe 4 stock colors; black, titanium(gun metal gray), blue and plum crazy(purple). We will offer any custom color possible with a special order. It will probably be late this year before the amps are released we are still evaluating prototypes.

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We are going to offer 3 maybe 4 stock colors; black, titanium(gun metal gray), blue and plum crazy(purple). We will offer any custom color possible with a special order. It will probably be late this year before the amps are released we are still evaluating prototypes.

ill be inline for a 2150 and a 275 when they are ready, should sound amazing on a full active front stage.

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Testing is going well on the LP2150, we have had ZERO issues, and everyone that listens to it at shows and when we demo it are amazed at the dynamics and detail. We are even blown away by the shear sound quality and seemingly unlimited power this amp has, you can push it to its limits and it still sounds un-strained, open and dynamic.

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I'm enjoying these positive updates, how long until productions are up and running?

Probably end of the year, we are working on the LP2075, and the LP2250 to bring out at the same time.

Edited by Linear Power

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>Ray<

Would like to ask something else, please...

Your amplifiers are known for being dynamic and having headroom : +3dB to be exact.

What in the output and power supply stage make the amp have so much headroom? Transistors? Transformer maybe?

I've read all about regulated VS unregulated and would like to know what else?

I had to ask coz the McIntosh MCC602TM is a monster of an amp and is supposed to be the best 2 channel on the market today - but from the specs it's headroom is 1dB. I guess 300rms is good enough not to have 3dB of headroom :shrug: lol

Kelvin

I'm no engineer, but my thoughts are that the power supply section is only working at a small fraction of what it can deliver. The output of the amp is 150 x 2, 300 total, the power supply is capable of delivering over 1000 watts PER CHANNEL. (25+ amps x 80+ volts to the output stage) It's only working at around 27% capacity. There is a TON of reserve, so NO SAG in the power supply at any volume or any frequency. The low frequency roll off poles are set at 4 Hertz, so it will make full power to 4 cycles and around 60% power at 1 cycle. :trippy:

PLUS, I saw Ray wrap the transformers, that man is a monster when it comes to wrapping them, and pulling that wire as tight as he did also helps make the power supply more efficient from what I understand. :shrug:

Add to that the output devices are capable of 450 watts PER CHANNEL and there is some of the reason for the +3 dB of headroom.

Ray can answer in better detail, and hopefully I didn't butcher it too much. :drink40:

this is one interesting post . glad it got brought up cause it 100% right on the money. for one amps like power acoustic that run at 100% have this problem of the amp running hot because of the junk chips they use and there tolerance of other parts so they do not sound good.

here is another problem with those amp it has to do with the same thing as historesis

commonly know at heat loss from resistance. shown buy the watts formula "amps squared times resistance" you could run resistors with a tolerance of 20 plus or minus percent over and all it is doing is turning all the need watts to run it in to heat. resistance is like friction. this like in a shitty amplifier heat sink it dissipates so much heat. that's some of that +3db's going out the window to heat.

kind of like kenwood x10-d amps that i use to own. they claim 600 rms but only put out about 300-400 rms at 2or 1 ohms using full rail power and it's dipping power supply never sounded quite right to me. this cause mostly cause of the selection of parts and design. they designed a 600rms amp with only 40 amps of capable amp pull from the set up. we all know that amp has to be dipping at 300-400 rms at 14.4 volts this equals 576 watts times .707 to give 407.232 watts the point seven oh seven or .707 is from reading of a osilloscopes sine wave that's the rms value of a sine wave or .707 of the peak . which equal rms watts this way of a amp at peak out put or possible peak output like i was saying they can only run 400 rms max and there going to be dipping the incoming power feed to those transistor chips. mite hit 600 rms at 16 volt which is max the amp can handle. as we all know why linear is better and now i know why we can wait to get the new amps.

which we know linear amps are going to have noting but the best in them. you can tell a good amp by how cool it will runs and how clean it sounds. hope you top sundown audio cause they sound damn good too cause of the components they use. here is the best part cause you guy got great customer service i can't wait for the new amps to come out.

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