234 replies to this topic

[Speed]

The detailing season is about to start and I just ordered one of these:

<a href="http://www.autogeek.net/flex-orbital-polisher.html" target="_blank">http://www.autogeek.net/flex-orbital-polisher.html</a>

I took the funds out of my car audio budget. <ducking>

Edited by Aaron, 09 October 2009 - 04:26 PM.
update title and pin

[bum]

that's cool for 280 but this is what i would buy for 189.99 buffs and polishes i like how your is orbital i usually use 1600 rpm to buff but of course your not as quick at it as me. for the reason ben doing auto body for a wile.


http://www.tcpglobal...depot/dsd8.aspx

[Speed]

sadistic_customs, on Mar 17 2009, 10:04 PM, said:

that's cool for 280 but this is what i would buy for 189.99 buffs and polishes i like how your is orbital i usually use 1600 rpm to buff but of course your not as quick at it as me. for the reason ben doing auto body for a wile.


http://www.tcpglobal...depot/dsd8.aspx

You probably get more practice with a machine in a week, than I do in an entire season. Truth be told, I'm scared to death of a full orbital. There's an extra hood in my garage that I got as a practice piece. Over the summer, I want to get a Harbor Freight orbital and see how it goes. A dual-orbital is almost foolproof. I have one now, a PC, but it isn't powerful enough for serious paint correction.

[Ryan J - abxx]

I have a Porter Cable Random Orbit that I use on my car once a year. Usually takes ALL day, but the end result is orgasmic!

[Speed]

abxx49, on Mar 18 2009, 11:43 AM, said:

I have a Porter Cable Random Orbit that I use on my car once a year. Usually takes ALL day, but the end result is orgasmic!

I think the PC is best used with LSPs. It can get some paint correction done with a 3-4" pad, but the chances of burning the paint are much greater. Ask me how I know.

I use mine almost every week, but I only work on my own cars and will sometimes do cars for friends and family. Once in a while I'll offer to work on an interesting car for another enthusiast, but that's rare. A full detail takes at least 2 days, usually longer with LSP cure time, but I don't work too hard. Wash, clay, 2-step polish and/or chemical cleaner, 1st LSP layer on the first day, and a 2nd layer on the next day. I do the interior in between. Then I continue to build layers over the following weeks until the paint looks like it's covered in a candy apple shell.

[Aaron Clinton]

Wow, that is a chunk. Glad to see other detailing nuts on here like me. Car detailing was my first business I started in high school. And from that, I have become accoustom to doing everything by hand, and muscling out scuffs and such. I have an ok buffer, but I use it maybe twice a year. I feel I am put much more pressure on massaging the product into the paint then I can with that buffer. Would love a serious orbital buffer when I have the money for one. Detailing the cars is almost theraputic for me. Burns calories and I can zone out and not have to talk to anyone or use the brain, just work. Plus it is instant gradification as I can see the progress I am making.

[Speed]

Aaron, on Mar 18 2009, 02:34 PM, said:

Wow, that is a chunk.

You know how it goes with German machinery. I expect this thing to last for the rest of my life.

Quote

Detailing the cars is almost theraputic for me. Burns calories and I can zone out and not have to talk to anyone or use the brain, just work. Plus it is instant gradification as I can see the progress I am making.

That's exactly how it is for me - cheaper and much more gratifying that seeing a shrink. I've always admired well-detailed cars, tried my hand at it more than once, and was mostly met with disappointment. Nothing that I did looked like my idea of great paint. One day I decided to learn how to do it right, did a lot of research, spent hours upon hours watching instructional videos, only to discover that everything that I thought I knew was dead-wrong. At this point, I'm pretty good at it, if I say so myself. There's a community of high-end details at Autopia.org who's kind enough to help when I need a hand, mostly with product selection and application. I've also amassed quite a collection of boutique detailing products. You think the car audio folks trade gear? Ha! You should see the detailers. Even I keep a dozen sample bottles on hand for trading. All my stuff is still inside to avoid the freezing temps. I'll post some pics once I get everything back on the shelves in the garage.

Edited by Speed, 18 March 2009 - 02:14 PM.

[Aaron Clinton]

Would love to see the stock pile. With so many other major expenditures as of late, I have not been able to buy the top shelf products. Heck, it was almost a holiday when I had a gift card that had just enough to buy a bottle of Zymol liquid cleaner wax. I miss having my Liquid Glass polish on hand.

[Speed]

Aaron, on Mar 18 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Would love to see the stock pile. With so many other major expenditures as of late, I have not been able to buy the top shelf products. Heck, it was almost a holiday when I had a gift card that had just enough to buy a bottle of Zymol liquid cleaner wax. I miss having my Liquid Glass polish on hand.

I don't know how to tell you this, but OTC Zymol is relabeled Turtle Wax. I'd be happy to send you some samples, though. I should have all my stuff out in 2-3 weeks, if the weather holds, and I have more than enough to share. Hobbyists, like myself, simply can't use all the product in a 16oz bottle. On avarage, it takes ~1oz to do an entire car with a machine, as it can lay down a much thinner coat than doing it by hand. So, we trade with each other, trying different products for the fun of it.

I can recommend a few inexpensive OTC products that are much, much better than their peers, rivaling many boutique offerings:

Mothers FX tech wax (liquid, not the spray) - not a wax, but a sealant. very similar to Zaino in its look and application with slightly lower durability, can be had for a song at Walmart

Black Magic Matte Tire Dressing - arguably the best dressing I've tried on tires to date, apply with a sponge applicator, let sit for ~5-10 minutes, then buff-off. makes tires and other rubber pats look brand new without an artificial gloss and sticky residue, no slinging.

Stoners Invisible Glass - glass cleaner, another OTC product whose performance humbles its price

Duragloss brand products - Aquawax - nothing easier to use, can be applied during the drying process, maintains a detail almost indefinitely with regular use. While almost all Duragloss offerings are superb, their car wash stands out, as well.

[Aaron Clinton]

Thanks for the tips, as I have fallen out of the in-the-know crowd on products. As for Zymol liquid, it does a noticable difference over the Turtle Wax paste I keep on hand for quicky applications. But I trust your word on it. As for the Mothers Tech Wax, I have a bottle of spray in the back of my car at all times, but once I empty the Meguires Gold Glass paste tin, I will try the Mothers.

One of my favorite under the radar products is Nylox metal polish. Does an awesome job. A guy I used to show my car with, swore by something with the name Green in it.

I did a Momentum article in 2004 on different detailing products when I was still detailing on the side and going through products on a regular basis. I would have to dig it up off an old computer, as Momentum is no longer online. Really miss writting for as a hobby on a hobby.

I will check out the Duragloss, have not seen it in stores near me, but I will keep a look out for it.

[bum]

Aaron, on Mar 19 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

Thanks for the tips, as I have fallen out of the in-the-know crowd on products. As for Zymol liquid, it does a noticable difference over the Turtle Wax paste I keep on hand for quicky applications. But I trust your word on it. As for the Mothers Tech Wax, I have a bottle of spray in the back of my car at all times, but once I empty the Meguires Gold Glass paste tin, I will try the Mothers.

One of my favorite under the radar products is Nylox metal polish. Does an awesome job. A guy I used to show my car with, swore by something with the name Green in it.

I did a Momentum article in 2004 on different detailing products when I was still detailing on the side and going through products on a regular basis. I would have to dig it up off an old computer, as Momentum is no longer online. Really miss writting for as a hobby on a hobby.

I will check out the Duragloss, have not seen it in stores near me, but I will keep a look out for it.

i always like the mother carnuba wax gold it the cleaner wax. the only time i use any buffing compounds is when the like some one scratches there car and you have to remove a marks. all i do is apply wax buy hand and wipe it off with a dry rag. now buffing compound i use a buffer to apply and a dry clean rag to wipe off then flow with the carnuba wax. i will have to try the tech wax after the carnuba one day to see how it works on a shine. was it simple green degrease agent?

[Aaron Clinton]

Yes, thank you s_c, Simple Green!

This topic reminds me I need to get a new clay bar for the 528i. I have a good deal of work to do on the paint this year. Would really like to get the marks on the passenger side repaired this year, but don't see it happening due to money issues, and I am about to buy a new set of Yoko AvidV4's for it this week.

[Speed]

sadistic_customs, on Mar 19 2009, 02:40 PM, said:

i always like the mother carnuba wax gold it the cleaner wax. the only time i use any buffing compounds is when the like some one scratches there car and you have to remove a marks. all i do is apply wax buy hand and wipe it off with a dry rag. now buffing compound i use a buffer to apply and a dry clean rag to wipe off then flow with the carnuba wax. i will have to try the tech wax after the carnuba one day to see how it works on a shine. was it simple green degrease agent?

Tech wax, which is a sealant, cannot be layered on top of a wax, as it will either just smear on top or remove the wax completely. OTOH, a wax can be layered on top of a sealant.

Mothers, unlike Maguires, makes a uniformly descent product. In fact, I've yet to try anything subpar. Maguires has excellent professional lines, but its OTC product is mostly shit. I can't think of a single entity that's worth spending time on, other than the car wash. Same goes for its NXT line, except perhaps for the car soap again.

When it comes to LSPs (ie. Last Step Products - waxes and/or sealants), it is almost impossible to lay down as thin of a coat by hand as it is with a PC (ie. Porter Cable random-orbital). The bulk of high-end detailers practice the WOWO method - Wipe On, Wipe off. By having an extremely thin coat, the LSP is MUCH easier to work with and to remove. The paint only reacts with what it touches; the rest goes to waste and makes removal much more difficult. That's why a thin coat is key. When I say thin, I mean there's no visible LSP on the paint until it starts to haze.

When it comes to scratch/swirl removal and paint prep, we reply on specific polishes. Here is an example:

http://www.autogeek....of-germany.html

Speaking of paint prep, that's what makes the detail. A LSP only protects what's underneath. Its gloss is minimal compared to the paint, itself. The paint has to be polished beforehand. Depending on the the condition of the paint, it may require a 2-step or even a 3-step polish before being sealed with a wax or a sealant.

As a point of interest, Carnauba is pronounced as Car-NOW-ba. Bring that up next time you're out with friends.

Edit: I should also mention that much of the damage to the paint is caused by its owners, either by washing/drying the car, or by "detailing" it. We use specialty microfiber on the paint. Unlike the old cotton T-shirt, good microfiber doesn't damage the paint, its absorption properties are superior to any other drying media, it can remove a LSP with ease, and long-fiber microfiber can accomplish a QD without marring the finish. No one in our community allows a "detailer" to touch his paint. That goes double for fresh paint, and/or new cars.

Like I said earlier, once I started learning from the best, I realized that almost everything I knew was terribly wrong.

Edited by Speed, 20 March 2009 - 03:32 AM.

[Speed]

Aaron, on Mar 19 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

One of my favorite under the radar products is Nylox metal polish. Does an awesome job. A guy I used to show my car with, swore by something with the name Green in it.

Thanks, I'll definitely try it.

Quote

I will check out the Duragloss, have not seen it in stores near me, but I will keep a look out for it.

Duragloss can be found at these stores:

http://www.duragloss...loss-stores.asp

They also have flat-fee shipping, if ordering from their site.

Edit: Big Lots is a fantastic place to shop for discounted/discontinued detailing products and tools. The better/unique stuff sells out quickly, as the word goes out on Autopia almost as soon as it hits the shelves, but there are still bargains galore. I was there day before yesterday and bought some Black Magic Tire Cleaner to try for $2 and some very nice Turtle Wax applicator pads for $.75 each. They had other good products in stock, but I already have them. I'm bringing this up for two reasons. Firstly, Big Lots stocks Long Haul products. Their QD (ie. Truck Gloss spray) is a relabeled boutique product and a big-ass spray bottle sells for ~$3. It's so good, that I have a 2 extra containers of the stuff. Long Haul degreaser is also very good and it sells for the same low price.

Secondly, there's all kinds of discontinued stuff at Big Lots, as well. When Meguires discontinued its brushes, much to the dismay of the community, Big Lots got them all. The brushes were selling for 1/3 of their regular price. If you see the Wheel Spoke Brush, buy it immediately. It makes wheel cleaning a breeze. The interior brushes are very much worth having, as well.

Edited by Speed, 20 March 2009 - 04:16 AM.

[Aaron Clinton]

Thanks for the tip. I think there is a BigLots store near us.

[Speed]

Aaron, on Mar 20 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

Thanks for the tip. I think there is a BigLots store near us.

Do you, and the rest of the gang, use microfiber towels? Target's Vroom brand is an excellent value, espescially the orange and the grey towels. They're much better than bargain microfiber. I use them, myself, even though there's probably $700-worth of boutique microfiber on hand. This isn't to say they're better than most of the fine towels, but there's definitely a place for them in one's arsenal. They're also a great place to start at a bargain price. Vroom waffle weaves are good, too.

A FYI for those wondering about maintenance, microfiber is very easy to take care of. It can be washed in the machine with ordinary laundry soap. The only constraint is to use a liquid, as a power soap can leave granules trapped in the towel and scratch the paint. After washing, air dry. The towels should, preferably, be stripped of their tags and washed before use.

Those who haven't used microfiber detailing towels are in for a very pleasant surprise. Not only are the towels 100% safe on paint - no small claim - but they also have a natural charge that pulls dust and dirt toward the fibers and traps them within. Waffle weave microfiber, typically used for drying, absorbs 7-10 times its own weight in water, and will also trap dirt particles, instead of dragging them on the paint.

<grin> I'm all inspired by the Flex purchase. I may get my stuff together, inventory the supplies, and take some pics.

This is a group shot of the LSPs and their dedicated pre-cleaners that were used in a durability test on another forum:




S_C, as you mentioned a wax stripping product in your bass thread, I use the stuff on the far left to strip the paint, if a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water doesn't do the job. I haven't tried it as a degreaser, though.

Edited by Speed, 21 March 2009 - 03:08 PM.

[Aaron Clinton]

I have a few old ones, but need to order new ones. Most of the towels I have been using of late are very soft terry cloth. I am curious to hear about the results of the P21s product shown above, as a few people mentioned that brand when I was showing my car. One series of products that I don't think were mentioned are the Mothers Professional numeric series, as in the maroon bottles that essentially are listed numerically in order of application after the car wash, any thoughts on them?

I have to say, this is one of my favorite topics on here so far. This is a great topic that we are all sharing and learning from.

I would be outside right this moment working on the 528i in this nice weather, if the wife had not taken junior to the playground.

[Speed]

Aaron, on Mar 21 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

I am curious to hear about the results of the P21s product shown above, as a few people mentioned that brand when I was showing my car.

The P21S product in the pic is the pre-cleaner meant to chemically prep the paint for the P21S wax. I used it as a foundation for the Collinite wax. I have tried P21S wax. It's a beauty product that's extremely easy to use, but its longevity is on the short side, comparable to Gold Class paste. I didn't love the P21S wax and traded it on Autopia. If you want to try it, stop at a Harley dealer and have a look at the S100 line of motorcycle care products. It's relabeled P21S at half price.

One of the better beauty waxes can be had OTC - Turtle Wax Platinum (paste). I have a sample of the liquid, but I haven't tried it yet. I think that TWP has better pop than P21S, it's slicker, looks more wet and lasts just as short of a time. Plus, it can be had very inexpensively. I bought the paste for $4.

I'm expecting a shipment from Griots. I ordered some of their polishes to use with the Flex, as well as their Best Wax. It's supposed to be just as easy to use as P21S, look better and last much longer. Supposedly, the product is a favorite on the Concourse circuit. It's a 16oz bottle, which is way too much for me. If you'd like some, I have plenty of sample bottles to fill.

Generally, I much prefer sealants to waxes. It's purely a preference issue, like choosing chocolate over vanilla. As such, I have a lot more sealants than waxes, but I'm trying to expand my horizons. That's how I'm rationalizing ordering the Griots wax, while having a shelf-full of LSPs.

If you're wondering who won the durability contest, it was a tie between Collinite #476S and FK1 1000P. The 1000P is a paste sealant, and 476 does have some natural content. Both are still beading on the hood in my backyard. FWIW, Collinite can be purchased at Harbor Freight or an online detailing boutique, and 1000P can be purchased from www.fk1usa.com

Quote

One series of products that I don't think were mentioned are the Mothers Professional numeric series, as in the maroon bottles that essentially are listed numerically in order of application after the car wash, any thoughts on them?

I've only tried the paste wax. I guess it's supposed to be the last step, after the pre-cleaner and sealant. I thought that it was fine product for OTC. It didn't blow me away with a specific property like TWP, but it didn't do anything wrong, either. It lasts longer than most OTC waxes. IME, Mothers FX liquid, Showtime QD, and Reflections Wax and Top Coat are the standout products. The FX line looks very bright and reflective. Reflections is a little more mellow-looking, with better depth. Both are equally as slick with proper prep, though I generally feel that FX looks more wet.

Quote

I have to say, this is one of my favorite topics on here so far. This is a great topic that we are all sharing and learning from.

<grin> I was kinda afraid that folks were getting bored with this. Good to hear otherwise.

Quote

I would be outside right this moment working on the 528i in this nice weather, if the wife had not taken junior to the playground.

I'm just itching to buff something. It's still too cold. A few more weeks, if the weather holds, and watch out!

Edited by Speed, 21 March 2009 - 03:02 PM.

[Speed]

In a previous post I mentioned Vroom brand microfiber from Kmart. It's actually supposed to be Target. Kmart does have its own brand of MF, but I haven't tried them. I edited the other post to correct the reference.

[Speed]

Ordered some pads today: 3 white and 1 orange 6.5" LC CCS pads for the Flex, and 2 white LC KP 7.5" pads for the HF rotary. I got them from here:

http://www.topoftheline.com/index.html

I also ordered some of the newer Meguiar's polishes to try, M105 and M205, along with a 32oz "sample" of the Last Touch QD. ADS, a Meguiar's store, offers smaller sizes of Meguiar's professional products at very reasonable prices:

http://www.autodetai....net/index.html